Thanks for sharing Bro John. I disagree about ever being a need to fight, Christ as our example shows we are to die not kill for our beliefs. There are times we do many things which are not supported by the word of God as we grow in obedeince to it. The swords and gun toys I have no problem with, it is part of childhood.
While I respect your perspective, the Torah disagrees with your view on this. Rebbe Y'shua was discussing interpersonal relationships not teaching pacifism. The Bible is very clear that HaShem orders His people to resist evil and at times to take up arms. The Bible is filled with accounts of the righteous taking of human life and Israel has a great many self-sacrificing holy warriors whom all should honor for the service. Without such dedicated Jews modern Israel would not have survived its first month.
Scripture says:
Ecclesiastes 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: 3:2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; 3:3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 3:4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 3:5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; 3:6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; 3:7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 3:8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
While Israel desperately wants peace, as this video correctly says, there are times when the righteous must put their books aside and take up the sword. HaShem is clearly with the IDF.
The victory of the Maccabees over Antiochus IV Epiphanes was a truly great victory for People Israel and Rebbe Y'shua celebrated it:
John 10:22 Then came Hanukkah in Yerushalayim. It was winter,
23 and Yeshua was walking around inside the Temple area, in Shlomo's Colonnade...
Scripture says:
Psalm 82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. 82:4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
Exodus 17:9 And Moses said unto Joshua, Choose us out men, and go out, fight with Amalek: to morrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the rod of God in mine hand.
Deuteronomy 20:8 "The officials will then add to what they have said to the soldiers: 'Is there a man here who is afraid and fainthearted? He should go back home; otherwise his fear may demoralize his comrades as well.'
9 When the officials have finished speaking with the soldiers, commanders are to be appointed to lead the army.
10 "When you advance on a town to attack it, first offer it terms for peace.
11 If it accepts the terms for peace and opens its gates to you, then all the people there are to be put to forced labor and work for you.
12 However, if they refuse to make peace with you but prefer to make war against you, you are to put it under siege.
13 When ADONAI your God hands it over to you, you are to put every male to the sword....
This was HaShem's order. Israel has done FAR more than anyone could require trying to attain peace with its neighbors (far too much in my opinion) but they attacked the Holy City they responded correctly and with discretion.
Pacifism in the face of evil isn't a biblical quality. We agree to disagree here
Of course, the US has not been in a just war since World War II. HaShem does not sanction unjust wars. The taking of human life in such wars is murder.
Shalom and Chag Hanukkah Sameach my friend
~ John
@Johnofallfaith Perhaps Bro John the reason we have different perspectives is because I stand upon this verse Eph_6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. My enemies are not those of the physical but those of the spiritual. To overcome the flesh one overcomes the fallen spirit.
Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
1Th_5:15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
Luk_6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
Luk_6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. Joh_15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
1Pe_2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
GBU my friend
@Lewis1122 - I understand that (and respect it) however the New Testament can only be understood in harmony with Torah. As the Rebbe taught us:
Matthew 5:17 "Don't think that I have come to abolish the Torah or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete.
18 Yes indeed! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so much as a yud or a stroke will pass from the Torah -- not until everything that must happen has happened.
19 So whoever disobeys the least of these mitzvot and teaches others to do so will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever obeys them and so teaches will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
We are not called to be revolutionaries etc. however we are called to stand up for Truth and to defend its values from aggressors. If our secular governments allow us a vote for instance we should research the topics and add our wisdom to that of the other citizens and vote to bless the country and influence it towards righteousness by our participation. Such civic responsibilities are founded solidly in Scripture.
If someone comes to kill or persecute we have the God-given right and even requirement to defend ourselves and others from aggressors by whatever means are necessary and at our disposal. The Bible judges harshly those who refuse to do so, it calls them "cowards" regardless of their reasoning (I'm certainly not calling you that, just speaking in general terms). The Rebbe said to turn the other cheek to a slap, not to lay down and die without resistance.
The command is: "Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath" (James 1:19). Slow to wrath (Greek: orgeĢ meaning slow to be riled up, slow to fight). Implicit in this is that there is a time to arise and fight (as we saw in the Ecclesiastes reference) but it is not the preferably way.
The Bible must be "rightly divided" with the greater emphasis placed on Torah.
Comments (4)
Thanks for sharing Bro John. I disagree about ever being a need to fight, Christ as our example shows we are to die not kill for our beliefs. There are times we do many things which are not supported by the word of God as we grow in obedeince to it. The swords and gun toys I have no problem with, it is part of childhood.
GBU
@Lewis1122 - Shalom Lewis,
While I respect your perspective, the Torah disagrees with your view on this.
Rebbe Y'shua was discussing interpersonal relationships not teaching pacifism. The Bible is very clear that HaShem orders His people to resist evil and at times to take up arms. The Bible is filled with accounts of the righteous taking of human life and Israel has a great many self-sacrificing holy warriors whom all should honor for the service. Without such dedicated Jews modern Israel would not have survived its first month.
Scripture says:
Ecclesiastes 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
3:2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3:3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
3:4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
3:5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
3:6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
3:7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
3:8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
While Israel desperately wants peace, as this video correctly says, there are times when the righteous must put their books aside and take up the sword. HaShem is clearly with the IDF.
The victory of the Maccabees over Antiochus IV Epiphanes was a truly great victory for People Israel and Rebbe Y'shua celebrated it:
John 10:22
Then came Hanukkah in Yerushalayim. It was winter,
23
and Yeshua was walking around inside the Temple area, in Shlomo's Colonnade...
Scripture says:
Psalm 82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
82:4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
Exodus 17:9 And Moses said unto Joshua, Choose us out men, and go out, fight with Amalek: to morrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the rod of God in mine hand.
Deuteronomy 20:8
"The officials will then add to what they have said to the soldiers:
'Is there a man here who is afraid and fainthearted? He should go back
home; otherwise his fear may demoralize his comrades as well.'
9
When the officials have finished speaking with the soldiers, commanders are to be appointed to lead the army.
10
"When you advance on a town to attack it, first offer it terms for peace.
11
If it accepts the terms for peace and opens its gates to you, then
all the people there are to be put to forced labor and work for you.
12
However, if they refuse to make peace with you but prefer to make war against you, you are to put it under siege.
13
When ADONAI your God hands it over to you, you are to put every male to the sword....
This was HaShem's order.
Israel has done FAR more than anyone could require trying to attain peace with its neighbors (far too much in my opinion) but they attacked the Holy City they responded correctly and with discretion.
Pacifism in the face of evil isn't a biblical quality.
We agree to disagree here
Of course, the US has not been in a just war since World War II. HaShem does not sanction unjust wars. The taking of human life in such wars is murder.
Shalom and Chag Hanukkah Sameach my friend
~ John
@Johnofallfaith Perhaps Bro John the reason we have different perspectives is because I stand upon this verse Eph_6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. My enemies are not those of the physical but those of the spiritual. To overcome the flesh one overcomes the fallen spirit.
Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
1Th_5:15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
Luk_6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
Luk_6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. Joh_15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
1Pe_2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
GBU my friend
@Lewis1122 - I understand that (and respect it) however the New Testament can only be understood in harmony with Torah. As the Rebbe taught us:
Matthew 5:17
"Don't think that I have come to abolish the Torah or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete.
18
Yes indeed! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so
much as a yud or a stroke will pass from the Torah -- not until
everything that must happen has happened.
19
So whoever disobeys the least of these mitzvot and teaches others to
do so will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever
obeys them and so teaches will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
We are not called to be revolutionaries etc. however we are called to stand up for Truth and to defend its values from aggressors. If our secular governments allow us a vote for instance we should research the topics and add our wisdom to that of the other citizens and vote to bless the country and influence it towards righteousness by our participation. Such civic responsibilities are founded solidly in Scripture.
If someone comes to kill or persecute we have the God-given right and even requirement to defend ourselves and others from aggressors by whatever means are necessary and at our disposal. The Bible judges harshly those who refuse to do so, it calls them "cowards" regardless of their reasoning (I'm certainly not calling you that, just speaking in general terms). The Rebbe said to turn the other cheek to a slap, not to lay down and die without resistance.
The command is: "Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath" (James 1:19). Slow to wrath (Greek: orgeĢ meaning slow to be riled up, slow to fight). Implicit in this is that there is a time to arise and fight (as we saw in the Ecclesiastes reference) but it is not the preferably way.
The Bible must be "rightly divided" with the greater emphasis placed on Torah.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one
Peace, Love and Light,
~ John
Comments are closed.